The Connect With Purpose Project
Your purpose is not some distant destination reserved for a few—it’s already within you, waiting to be heard. Often, it’s in the quiet whispers we try to ignore that hold the key to our deepest calling. This podcast is about listening to those whispers and taking the first steps, even when it feels scary.
Our guests have faced the same struggles—feeling stuck, unsure, or burned out—but found their way by trusting that inner voice. If you’re alive, your mission is not complete. You’re here for a reason.
The Connect With Purpose Project
The Art of Connecting Curious Humans
Design Buddies, the world’s largest design community with over 150,000 members, began as a sanctuary for those who felt they didn’t fit the mold. Founded by Grace Ling in her early 20s, this community embodies her vision of a judgment-free space where creativity thrives beyond societal norms and expectations.
In this episode, Grace shares how she transformed her career and ditched the corporate world by following her passion, building a six-figure business by staying true to herself, and creating a community where others could do the same.
Discover Grace’s insights on "learning in public," stepping outside her comfort zone, and finding inspiration in spaces where she doesn’t “belong.” Whether you’re looking to build something impactful or just gain the courage to pursue your passion, Grace’s journey offers valuable lessons for anyone ready to embrace their unique path.
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Know someone who's flipped the table on their career to follow their life's purpose? Let us know at titan-one.co.
I just feel like that, desire to be different, desire for just pure curiosity and creativity and thinking outside the box, where up brain leads me to like what I do today.
Nicole Gottselig:Hello and welcome to connect with purpose, where we uncover the journeys of remarkable people who have turned their passions into a Purpose Driven Life. I'm your host. Nicole gotselag, whether you're on your own quest for meaning or simply curious how others have navigated their paths, this show is here to inspire and guide you along the way, and today, we have a truly inspiring guest joining us, Grace Ling, the visionary behind the incredible design buddies community. Grace recently hosted the first ever hybrid design buddies conference design the future in San Francisco, attracting nearly 4500 registrants without spending a single dollar on marketing. Now, grace is empowering others to embrace their uniqueness and not change to fit in. So without further ado, let's welcome Grace Ling to the show.
Grace Ling:Thanks for having me on. I'm really excited. Thanks for the glowing intro,
Nicole Gottselig:Grace. I have been waiting to interview you for so long now, so it's so lovely to actually have you here.
Grace Ling:I'm happy to be here.
Unknown:Okay, so let's go right into the questions actually. Let's start with design buddies. Design Buddies is really where I know you the most from. So how did the idea actually come about.
Grace Ling:I started design buddies because, honestly, I just wanted friends to learn design from at that time, April, 2020, I was a student studying bioengineering and Computer Science Engineering, and I really wanted a job in UX design. I was applying too many jobs and getting ghosted left and right, because I don't have any design education background, but I had a lot of like, random projects I've done over the years, so self taught, and I just It was also during COVID, during the pandemic, and I was trying to learn design from other people, trying to connect. So hopefully land a job while having fun at the same time. And I felt like other design communities at that time, in my own experience, were very corporate and stuffy and boring, and I just randomly made this, this court server called it design buddies, and somehow we became bunnies as our logo, because buddy sounds like bunnies and yeah, and then I kept growing, and four years later, we have over 150,000 combined members over the world. It's taken me across the world to events, speak at conferences, and we're helping designers land jobs, improve their skills and have fun along the way. And I believe that you don't have to just change yourself to fit in to any corporate world. And so kind of the idea behind design Buddies is learn with your buddies, and like to be fun and playful and just being myself, essentially because, because a bit of my upbringing is I've always thought normal was boring, and I've always been a bit different, and like to challenge norms. And so I was like, why not make tech cute in Kauai? And so that's kind of like the branding behind it. And then I just tried to solve problems, help people land jobs, give value, and that's how we've grown a lot in a unique way.
Unknown:I'm really curious how, though, did you get so many community members. Like, do you remember who the first person was that actually signed up?
Grace Ling:I actually don't remember who the first person was. How I initially started design Buddies is I also asked, like a Facebook group, if anyone's interested. It's like a general creativity group. I was like, trying to get into UX design. I really like that group. And I was like, Hey, does anyone want to create a UX design group chat where you just talk about UX design? And then I think, like, one or 200 people commented on it. I made like, a messenger chat for like a week, and then it filled up, and I made a discord chat, and so it was like, in this group called Asian creative network. I also posted it like on my LinkedIn, my social media. I've also been, like, creating content for a couple of years, and so already had, like, a bit of a following, but not specifically UX designers. So some people join from there as well. Oh,
Nicole Gottselig:that's really, really interesting. And it's like it just seemed to just kind of explode and take off. You grew up in Silicon Valley. Do you? Do you think like your your upbringing, your your influence kind of gave you that push to actually just do it, because I don't know if, if I would feel like I would have like the that's to do it like growing up in, say, a small town so far away from Silicon Valley. But so how did that influence you
Unknown:So I grew up in this town called Cupertino, California. It's where Apple is headquartered, and it's like interesting, because growing up to be popular in school, you had to get good grades. And my parents are immigrants from Taiwan and Singapore, but I was born around Cupertino, and all my life, I felt like all the adults around me were like, you gotta be a doctor, engineer, lawyer or failure. Meanwhile, I want to be an anime artist or game designer. I played a lot of games like Pokemon, Maple Story, Animal Crossing, but it's interesting. In school, it was just like, very academics. A lot of the kids, like, after each test, they were asked me, like, Hey, what are your grades, or, like, what are your SAT scores? And the summer, typically, in the summer, your parents are signing you up for, like, SAT or the standardized tests, like boot camps. And that was also like, my summer, and it was interesting. But at the same time my brain, I feel like I learned best by doing things and visualizing things and solving problems and thinking outside the box and being creative. But school rewards you for memorizing concepts and being able to, like, take in a lot of information and regurgitate it all on an exam. It's that's why I struggle a lot in school. Like, I didn't get the best grades. I wasn't popular at all. In fact, I was bullied. I was also like, I've always liked asking questions. Like, I would ask teachers, like, Hey, why are we learning this? And just like, things like that, and a lot of the kids, I was also like, like, to make people laugh, because I thought normal was boring, so I was had a lot of jokes, but at the same time, some of the kids, like, didn't really align with my humor, so they bullied me, but I fought back harder, and then I whole escalated this thing, and it almost led to, like, me potentially being expelled. So it was this whole, like, her fault. It was kind of funny looking back, I was just like, Kid grace, like, getting bullied, but also, like, then he was like, funny. Like, I remember one thing I said, it was just like, oh, haters are, like, so obsessed with me. I think they love me, like I was, like, that kind of kid with that kind of humor, and the kids, like, did not like me at all, but I'm still like that online. Um, I just feel like that desire to be different, desire for this sheer curiosity and creativity and thinking outside the box for my upbringing, leads me to like what I do today.
Nicole Gottselig:Wow, I'm, you know, as I listen to that, my eyes well up with tears a little bit, not because of the sound of you being bullied, it's more how you rose through that and you you rose above that at such a young age, I can't help but wonder if your your parents really drove in this, this, this feeling of, like, self assuredness in you, like, like, how did you find that that space to rise from that so young? It's really, truly inspiring. Grace. Thank
Grace Ling:Thank you. Yeah, it was interesting, because, like, at the age of 12, the kids were telling me, like, basically not to live anymore, and it was kind of intense, like I Yeah, at one time it got to me, but my parents, I think that's interesting. They I felt like, pretty sheltered growing up. They wanted to know every single detail about my life. And I feel like the way they dealt with it was cut off my internet access for whole summer. It was interesting, um, but I think they were also trying to fight with the school to, like, try to get them to do something with all the kids. But real, what really helped me rise up was when I was 13, a year after in eighth grade, my mom, she started, like, paying me to go to the gym with her. And at the gym, I was just, like, discovered running on the treadmills because I just want to watch TV. And I, like, suddenly got like, really fast at running. Like, for example, my mile time used to be, like, 15 minutes. And then in eighth grade, I ran, like, a 558, and then it continued running. And then high school ended up, like, almost breaking five minutes in a mile, broke a lot of school records, went to Nationals many times, and placed pretty high, like, top 10. And so, like, running was such a huge part of my life, and it was like, when I discovered running, it was for the first time my life that I finally felt good at something, because the kids were bullying me for, like, my personality and like, I wasn't getting good grades, and like, running was just something that I got suddenly, like, randomly, really good at, really fast, and it became my whole identity.
Nicole Gottselig:And really, Grace's identity was formed out of the need to find her own way in the face of so much adversity. And it was through running she enhanced her confidence, found another place to excel. And she wasn't actually shying away of being her authentic self at all. And even at such a young age, she was just out there, just doing it. And what really got me was that she was speaking about all these like pretty deep and intense moments with so much positivity and not. Toxic positivity, like sugar coating, when everything was great, but it was really how she responded and perceived these moments, like they weren't really positive or not. I mean, she just tells this story with so much life enthusiasm and zest, and maybe that's because of the outcome of all these moments which have opened up so much inspiration, it's almost like infinite what she can do just for not even for her, just for herself, but for all the 1000s of others that she's touching. And really, you know, it was that very thing running that provided so much joy and this outlet for her was actually becoming in crisis, and that would actually lead her down a different path.
Grace Ling:I like to live life with no regrets, because I feel, I believe that everything we do leads us to where we are today. But if I had to choose, if I had to redo something, is spend more time with my friends, do different things, travel more in college. But I feel like through that experience of just like working really hard to achieve a goal, it taught me a lot of endurance, including with running, and also, like, when I graduated college, I just kind of like, did a lot of like other things. Like, I've always had other hobbies outside of school, so I had, like, social media, had running and, yeah, I feel like that helped me, just like, give confidence that I didn't put all my eggs in one basket.
Nicole Gottselig:So when you put yourself out there and you take chances, it's like, it sounds so great in theory, and it's like, okay, this is how we can open the door to new possibilities, right? But it's also scary, overwhelming and can be risky. How did you overcome those feelings?
Grace Ling:I also feel like being bullied from a young age, it helped me develop a really thick skin, and that helps me be able to put myself out on the internet a lot without fearing any judgment, because I know like these people, if people are mean to you, I just like, hope they are well, because they probably are going through something, because I don't believe happy people would get out of their way to pull someone down and yeah, so dislike. I feel like all that led to me right now where I just, like, quit my corporate job because I don't believe in I don't want to, like, climb the corporate ladder. I'm always like, trying to breach norms, I guess, go in school, just like, I don't know, like going the other direction that society tells me to, but it's been really fun, and I feel like I just like, hope to inspire people to be themselves and not change themselves, to fit in anywhere, and hopefully they can be their best selves.
Nicole Gottselig:Grace. I need you. I think a lot of us, anyone who's listening to this podcast right now, we need you as our coach. Because really, it's, it's, it's never about how what happens to us. It's, it's always about how we react and what actions we take when positive, negative or whatever experiences come to us. So here you are this. You know, young woman with her mom was paying her to go to the gym, which is something that my mother would have done for me too, actually. So really relate to that, getting bullied, but finding solace and finding your own peace, breaking records, succeeding in athletics, boosting your self esteem, creating a future your with your for yourself as well. So really, taking, you know, a very negative experience, and turning it into something positive, but maybe you don't think of it as negative, maybe you you see something different from it, which is what I hear from you in this explanation, which is really, it's just really admirable. So thank you for sharing that. I do want to know why you were expelled from school, though.
Grace Ling:Oh no, I was not expelled, but I almost got expelled. Because I think I almost got expelled nothing, form or anything, but just based on the reactions that principal gave me. I had suspected that, because when the kids were bullying me, I fought back even harder. So, like, I would, like, kick people, but they would kick me back, but they started it, so I was defending myself. But also, also, like, one time this popular girl stole a bunch of like games and like pencils from me, and like, she had more people on her side, so that's why people believed her, not me.
Nicole Gottselig:Did you ever have like, a mantra in your head or, like, what kept you going like, what kept you going forward during all that, hmm,
Grace Ling:trying to think, because it's been, like, over 10 years ago, I feel like the sheer curiosity, I guess, like, I've always, I've been on the internet since I was, like, one years old, I guess, and so I've always had a lot of like, I've been sharing a lot of my journey online since I was, like, pretty young. And. I feel like the online community helped a lot, because I realized that, like, hey, there's so many nice people in this world, not just the people in school. I'm not limited by these people, and there's so many people in this world. If one person doesn't like me, that's okay. They're allowed to dislike me, just like I'm allowed to dislike other people or a lot to just like, not have, I guess, like now I don't really have an opinion, because I don't have time to like, dislike people, but I just kind of like vibe and just realize that I don't live life to please everyone. I just try to help as many people as I can, and if people are not okay with it, that's okay with me too. So just having peace with whatever outcome and living in the moment, focusing on that process and keep moving forward again.
Nicole Gottselig:Grace. I mean, we you could. You could be my life coach right now. It was really authentic when I hear you say it, because it's really when people are mean to us, whether it's, you know, online trolls or comments or things. It's never about us. It's really never anything personal. So and you're really actually living that, which I find utterly inspiring. So I'm also really inspired by how you just left a really great job and are now on your own officially. Was there any one thing that you're just like triggered you to go, Okay, I gotta get out of here. And it's, it's time to do my own thing. Or was it sort of a culmination of things, experiences?
Grace Ling:It was a culmination of things. Overall, I had a wonderful time at EA I am so grateful for the opportunity to work here because I actually got in, because I called a message the hiring manager on my team to get in as an intern. So without Marlin, I would never have this opportunity to work at EA and grow so much as a designer. But I feel like I've been at EA for almost four years. I started as an intern in June of 2020 and I left of april 2024 I've got a couple of promotions, but at the same time, I felt like I wanted to be someone bigger than corporate world. I felt like I think working as in a corporate job is amazing for like out of out of school experience, because I I get to learn, build my skills, learn how to organize the organization works. Got to meet so many amazing people and teammates and work on so many cool products. But I felt like corporate world isn't really for me, and I think it's for so I don't think it's like a bad thing to want to work in corporate but at least for me, I just felt like a cog in the machine, I felt like, like, even though I was learning a lot, I felt like I could be doing more of my time. And so a couple of things that led to this was I got a couple of pieces of feedback from leadership and people with more years of experience and higher up the corporate ladder than me, saying that I lack focus. I need to pick a niche and go for it. And I shouldn't be doing all these things outside of work. I need to just be a UX design Grace if I want to stay here. The other thing was, I was put in a lot of volunteer projects that, like, I don't really understand why I was doing it, and it didn't have anything to do with my job title. Essentially, it was like a lot of favors I had to give. And I when I tried to ask questions to understand, why are we doing this? How can I help? How can I make sure my designs are successful for this? The response I got was shut down. It was like, great. Stop asking questions. I just felt like people were telling me to just shut up, put your head down and do it. And just like a culmination of that over the years really made me feel like kind of like quiet quitting and really uninspired to work. And I just found myself, just like, lacking a lot of motivation to do the simplest things I was having trouble, like opening some Figmas, or responding from some slack, just because I just like, feel like my body was just telling me something, even though, like, yeah, it's like, a really great job on paper. And people were just like, looking at my time and be like, oh, I want to learn from you, or whatever. But inside, I just like, felt kind of like, empty. I just like, felt like I just like, didn't feel fulfilled, even though, like, I had such an overall, like, positive time. I just feel like I want to do more in life. And like I felt like at the same time I was also growing design buddies. I've always loved to do other things outside of work, like doing the art, social media, community building and design buddies was also taking up more of my time, and I've personally felt more fulfilled and helping build communities, gather people, help people have fun, work that professionally gain their skills. Then I did, then, then, then I did compared to like helping large companies. Make more money, so that's why I left. But overall, I'm just like, grateful for this experience I had, because I wouldn't have this realization otherwise, and I'm so happy to like, I hope EA does really well, because I had such a wonderful time. There met so many wonderful people, but I just felt like it wasn't for me anymore.
Nicole Gottselig:You know, that's really, what really actually struck me in what you were saying, is what showed up in your in sort of your day to day, your body, sort of your mental state, like even just to reply to a Slack message. So it's really incredible that you notice the correlation to what was actually happening in your your other like, your physical reality, your your body sensation and symptoms and what was also happening with you at work due to sort of what you were experiencing there, you know, this sort of, you know, kind of sit back, shut up, do your work, like, you know, quit doing so much sort of thing. And your body was like, yeah, no, I can't really anymore. So it's really holistic how you actually listen to that? Because some people take years and years and years to actually listen to those things and and often people don't, and then they end up getting ill or going into burnout and things like that. So high five to you grace from behind the mic here.
Grace Ling:Thank you. I'm glad I feel reassured, because for a while I thought I was just like a bad designer, or like, I'm just like, oh, I don't know, like a misfit, I guess, like, like, because I find these like this, like easy tasks that seem easy. A couple years ago, like, so difficult. But then I realized it was just like, I guess a sign right body telling me that, like, hey, this isn't for me. In the past, like, three months so I've moved to San Francisco, started a hacker house, and quit my job and took four flights across the country and went to so many events. And I feel like I'm at this phase of my life where I'm just, like, open to experimenting with whatever, and just having fun and fully acknowledging the fact that if I feel like I'm making mistakes, that means I'm on the right track, because I am taking risks. And if I yeah, I feel like I'm like, growing as a person. Um, I feel like hanging out with so many founders and creators, it really inspired me to carve my own path, just like listening to many stories of my friends leaving corporate carving their own path, and how they've been able to overcome any societal norms, has helped inspire me to live my own path too, and having a strong support system of in person, friends that I hang out regularly.
Nicole Gottselig:I mean, really, what astounded me about speaking with Grace is how fast her ideas spin up into action. To her, there are no roadblocks. There's just open highways, and she dances in this spectacular middle ground between design fantasy and corporate reality, even having rejected the traditional corporate world, her understanding of it is what allows her to mesh the two worlds together, seamlessly, really, and create a space for her fellow design buddies. There's really meaning in her digital community, and she worked extremely hard to bring this to life as a young founder, is that magic of a youthful spirit part of her superpower. Would this actually be possible for someone later in their career, for example, stuck on what she calls societal norms, and for others who dream of walking in Grace's footsteps and flipping the table on their own corporate career, is that the right answer. Okay, see now we're going down the rabbit hole here. So if somebody is ready to leave the corporate world, or maybe they just went through a big layoff, feels like everyone is getting laid off in tech right now, or has been over the last, like, year and a half, somebody is like, Okay, I gotta get out of this. I'm, you know, feeling I'm having panic attacks at work. I'm not motivated. I can barely reply to a message because I feel so dead and exhausted. I am ready to branch out and do my own thing. If you had to say three to five things that you know somebody should have in their tool belt or would need, what would that be? That could be anything from taking courses, podcasts, whatever, but what would be your Grace Ling's, you know, top five tips for branching out, leaving the corporate world, and doing what you want and living your own life on purpose?
Grace Ling:I feel like having a strong support system is key, having friends that are and mentors that may be doing something similar and open to help you, and you want to help them too. Two is making sure you have savings in finances and ideally, other revenue streams, because, like, I think it's something I overlooked, and because. For me where I am right now. I'm in my mid 20s. I don't have a family to feed, and I basically saved up enough money for me to just like, mess around for five years. And design buddies was also more and design buddies, plus content creation and all the other random stuff I do was becoming more profitable than my corporate job, and so I was a very that also, like, helped me be able to, like, quit pretty easily, like, making it an easier decision, because financially, I was in like, a good place. So I recommend, like, building the I guess the third thing is, like building additional revenue streams and investing in your skills, because, like, I feel like there's a investing your skills and maybe, like the stock market and but only invest for investing money, only invest things that you're open to losing, but investing your skills. Like, what do you like to do? What are you passionate about? And how can you help people with your skills, and being able to maybe charge a price for that, and I feel like and then I guess number five is just to be open minded, being able to like, challenge your thoughts and understand why you think that way, challenging your limited, limiting beliefs, and asking yourself why and how keep going like that. So I guess, in summary, like having a strong support system, having savings so you're not like, stressed out and making sure that people who depend on you won't be impacted. And I guess number three is like investing in your skills, yeah, and then also, like just being open minded and trying out new things and seeing what sticks.
Nicole Gottselig:Those are really actionable ways to make it happen, too. And I really like what you said about challenging your thoughts. Oftentimes, we, you know, we have so many thoughts in our minds throughout the day, and sometimes it's like, don't believe everything you think. What would be your suggestion for for challenging some of those thoughts that come up, like, do you have, like, a list you go through? Do you write it down?
Grace Ling:I just ask myself, what's the worst that can happen, and what is stopping me? And I just kind of do it. I guess an example is like hosting that conference I was I never thought I could pull through something like that with so many people attending. Because, like, I wouldn't have never thought I would start a hack the house, quit my job, host a huge conference and be speaking around the world. But I, I don't know, I just like, for me, what used to stop me was, like, imposter syndrome. Then I realized, like, Why? Why do I need to have that? These are just thoughts. I'll just like do it and people like it good. People don't like it good. So yeah, asking yourself, what's the worst that can happen if you're not harmed, no one's harmed, then I just go with it.
Nicole Gottselig:Okay, so every single one of us has had those times in our lives where we just second guess ourselves and feel like we need to have everything perfectly mapped out before we can even make a move. But what if we actually didn't? What if the real magic happens when you just take the leap without having all the answers? I've done this quite a few times in my life, most specifically, it was years ago. I moved from Vancouver to Toronto, and I really didn't know what I was gonna do. I had just enough money to get a place to live for a couple of months, and I just knew I'd figure it out. And there was this quote by Buster rhymes that just was always playing in my head, and it was, there's no plan B. Like, he's like, I have no plan B. And he just kept going with this plan A, and ended up becoming, of course, a very successful hip hop artist, and that always sort of stuck to me. And I'm not saying I do this all the time, and I'm not saying to just take wild, risky leaps without having any plan in place, but what if there's actually a way to just lean into that instability, that fear, and just go for it? Grace is about to take us through that kind of shift, how she went from pushing against her own limits to turning her ideas into something tangible and real. So you're going to hear her talk about reaping the rewards, the highs of traveling and just creating and learning as she goes. And she really does sum it up perfectly. I don't have to have it all figured out, and I'll trust myself. I'll make it work. So as we move into this next part, I invite you to think about where you are in your own life that you could just lean into and just trust that everything's gonna be okay, and maybe let go of the need to know everything, how it's all gonna unfold, and just go for it.
Grace Ling:In 2023 I went through a wild year like I spent three months traveling. I've been to like, over 20 countries. I was basically, like, rebelling against my own limiting thoughts that I can't travel, that I can have fun. And I was like, wow, this is so fun. And design money is also growing a lot. When I was gone too. And also, like, this year of like. Just moved out of my house, started a hacker house, quit my job, hosted a conference, traveled a lot to speak, and it was just like, kind of interesting, because, like, I feel like my life went through so many like phases of like intenseness and realizations that helped, like, open my mind to, like, try new things, and really led me to where I am today. Okay,
Nicole Gottselig:I have to know from that 20 countries that you visited, what were your top five favorite countries? Hmm,
Grace Ling:I feel like every country is kind of different in their own way. But I also, like, went through cruises. So some countries I only, unfortunately, only had eight hours in. So I can't, like, make a fair judgment, but I really liked Italy. It felt like I love, like, roaming and Greece and I visited like, 5000 2000 year old ancient ruins. I just like love, just like walking around and picturing how life was like there 2000 years ago, and how that connects the similarities and differences and how we evolve as a human society. Think that was, like, fascinating. I also love Singapore, because my dad's from Singapore, and I also have a lot of design buddies and business partners there, and I have a lot of my relatives there as well. And I got to I was there for like, two weeks, and I had people to hang out with every single day and show me around the city, and I love that because I'm my internet buddies. I also really liked the Caribbean. Like snorkeling. I like snorkeling in Honduras, that was so fun. I also liked Spain, like Barcelona, the gaudies, like the artists, the architecture there was was really fascinating. But I loved a lot of places. It was so fun. And I would definitely, um, travel again, like, this year I'm going to Antarctica. So I just love traveling.
Nicole Gottselig:Well, I hope you'll be blogging about it, or posting about it, which I'm sure you will. Yeah, I will. What would you say, like, since you started doing these out of the box, out of your comfort zone, you know, over the last few years, what would you say you'd learned like, the most about yourself? Like, what has anything surprised you? Or were you like, wow, I didn't think I could do that. Like, did you have any aha moments when you were doing all this?
Grace Ling:Yeah, I don't have to have everything figured out right now. I'll just set a goal and I'll figure it out somehow, and I believe in myself, I'll do it. And that conference was a big example of that. I was like, Oh, just do it. And then, like, I learned so many things through like, working with sponsors, negotiating. So I basically made, like, I this event was so expensive to produce, but I managed to get 60,000 almost like $60,000 worth of sponsorships. And I've learned so much about that, and learned about ticket sales, learned about branding, learned about coordinating, like speakers, volunteers, all that jazz, and so it's like, I don't have to have it all figured out, and I'll trust myself. I'll make it work somehow, and just doing it whatever I want. And that helped me, because, like before, I feel like a lot of people struggle with, like, perfectionist in mindset and need to have every single detailed and very risk averse. For me, I just realized, oh, I don't have to be that way. I'll just trust myself to figure it out, make it work somehow.
Nicole Gottselig:So really trust, trust in yourself and really belief. You know, belief is actually so powerful and many when you actually do believe and when you surrender, it's almost embarrassing. Sometimes how easy it can be, right? And it's usually those blocks we put up in ourselves beforehand, the imposter syndrome, the perfectionism, the procrastination, the it's got to be perfect before it's I got to do this. I got to that. And then here you are, Grace. It's like, I want to throw a conference. Never thrown a conference before. Don't really know what I'm doing, but I trust that. I'm just going to figure out. And then here we go, 60,000 in sponsorship later and a successful conference, wow, but, but it shows how powerful trust and belief is in in bringing you onto onto your journey, you know, and I'm sure there were bumps along the way, and I'm sure it wasn't all sunshine and roses for you either Grace like but you did it as well, really? Bravo. I think we could do a course with you on how to get sponsorships too.
Grace Ling:Oh yes, I have so many learnings from that. I guess. What I can say, if anyone's interested in sponsorships is typically the sponsors who pay more are better to work with. They're easier to work with and because they understand your value. Oh, I like that.
Nicole Gottselig:Oh, great, I'm writing, I'm writing this point down, yeah, okay,
Grace Ling:the people who pay more are better because they understand your value. Are better to work with. Okay,
Nicole Gottselig:yeah. I. Writing this down right now. Okay, this is, yeah, this is gold, literally. Oh, you're gonna help a lot of people with this grace. Are you have you done like, a out of your comfort zone thing today? Or are you planning on doing one today, an activity today?
Grace Ling:Yeah, I guess one thing that I've done a lot is, I guess, like reaching out to people. Like, I'm not very good at that, because I have a lot of inbound requests, but one of my friends of knee, she also, like, inspired me to, like, start reaching out to people, because she got a lot of success through that. And so I need to do more outbound, reach out to people I admire, and see how we can, like, potentially work together. That's why I'm telling you today. Also, like going to events that I don't on paper belong in. For example, like, I want to go, I want to be in, like an investor one day, or like an angel investor. So I would just like, go to these events and just like, meet people, like, ask them about their career path and just try to help them out and to make some introduction. So, yeah, combination, like, what I do normally is like, like, reach out to people and, like, put myself in rooms that I don't on paper belong in.
Nicole Gottselig:I love that. And the outbound, like, is that mostly doing most of that on LinkedIn or Instagram or, I guess, or does it just depend on where
Grace Ling:I do depend mostly LinkedIn or email or Twitter?
Nicole Gottselig:You know, outbound is scary for a lot of people, a lot of a lot of us, don't want to be rejected, and it's usually about rejection. You know, what advice would you give to someone who's like wants to branch out, wants to connect with new people, wants to expand, but they're scared of rejection or feeling stupid or embarrassed, or maybe if they're feeling shy
Grace Ling:I feel like rejection. It's just data. Like, just, like, putting yourself out there on social media, hey, comments. That's just data. You can ask them, like, Oh, why? Just like, learn some learn some feedback. And sometimes it's not about you. Maybe there's really busy, like, I am guilty of, like, missing, accidentally missing some messages too. And so, yeah, just treating rejection as just like a data point, it's just objective data that you can use to get feedback on or like, maybe it's not your fault at all. Maybe they're just really busy.
Nicole Gottselig:I want to talk a little bit about content, because really, this is the foundation of grace. Ling is content. I mean, I remember the first time I saw your content online. It was all these really cute drawings, and I'm a huge kawaii fan, and I have Kauai books at home, and I do all the doodles and the colors. So I'm probably someone that's not even in your target audience, but I was drawn to your drawings because I love kawaii. So you even reached out to someone like me who's not even in the design community as well. So you have so much diversity in your interests. And I know, you know you've worked in a company where maybe that wasn't always great. You've been told you need to, you know, pigeon yourself into some kind of a niche, which isn't cool, in my opinion. So how do you manage to create so much content that resonates with people across all different platforms, like from LinkedIn you're connecting with, like cool blogs and photos. Your Instagram has all this Kawhi stuff that's I love. And then even at your design conference, you even hand drew the name tags as well, which were so gorgeous.
Grace Ling:Thank you. Yeah, I feel like I just like experimenting with anything, and as a result, it kind of, I don't like, I don't for me. Like, I don't think of people in terms of buckets. Like, I don't define people based on, oh, they're a designer, oh they're a creator, oh they're a founder or engineer. I just like, think of people as, like, humans and people are really multifaceted. So the content I share, I just hope it resonates with like any other human out there, whether they like design, whether they also think of quitting their job, whether they like creating content or founder. And just like, I don't know. I don't I like to share practical tips for designers, and like career stuff as well. But I don't like think of and people who consume the are good, like seeing my content have to be like, I have a specific job, how they're just all humans in a day and just trying to help them on whatever goals they have too.
Nicole Gottselig:Oh, that's really beautiful. I mean, if you look at your community, your design buddies, I don't know what the backgrounds and the profiles are of anyone there, but can you tell me? I'm pretty sure that's it's a diverse group of people, and because of your diverse interests, you probably attract a lot of different people as well. Would that be safe to say?
Grace Ling:Yeah, I would say most people in design buddies are actually UX designers, because a lot of our content is UX spaced, and that's what my background is, and kind of attracts that kind of people. But I would say, like my own network, who I mostly hang out with, are people who are genuinely curious and passionate about what they're building, and open to connecting with other people and trying new things, which happens to be a lot of like content creators, founders. Is even people working a w2 or nine to five, so, yeah, open to like, anything, just like curious humans. I would say that
Nicole Gottselig:Hmm, curious humans, I love that you do a lot of speaking engagements, like, more than 100 Haven't you? Yeah, do you do a lot of like, like, do these come to you inbound. Or do you do a lot of like cold outreaches for these as well, too? Or is it a combination.
Grace Ling:100% is inbound?
Nicole Gottselig:Wow. Okay, so that's just that probably kind of bridges into your personal branding and networking. So would you say that that is really the key if I, if I am in a, you know, a career, maybe I'm a junior, mid level, senior, whatever level I'm at in my career, I want to get more speaking engagements, because I have really great stuff to talk about, and I can really help people in their lives and their careers. What do I need to start doing now? Grace, to start building my brand and networking. What would what advice would you give me or to anyone else listening to this?
Grace Ling:Yeah, like learning in public, sharing what you're doing every day, what you're learning and what you're creating, and building a following, building some influence on specifically LinkedIn, because lots of people and decision making power hang out on LinkedIn.
Nicole Gottselig:So learning in public. So a lot of people I know feel like I need to have a niche. I need to have a great tagline. I need to know exactly what I'm talking to my aliens, but I need to do this. What would you say to that?
Grace Ling:I would say you don't have to feel like you need to happy, perfect. What's the worst that can happen? And just put yourself out there. I feel like the more you put yourself out there and be yourself, the more people who vibe with you will attract to you.
Nicole Gottselig:So even if say I'm into say I work in a corporate job, work in tech, but at night, I love to do pottery and I teach meditation classes. Would you say is talking about that could be beneficial as well.
Grace Ling:Yeah, I think you don't have to keep linked. I know like LinkedIn people are like, Isha, and I'm like, why? I'm like, I feel like your life isn't just where you work, and your life also influences what you do about work and what you do professionally as well. And so there's no reason to shut that part down. Like, I literally like dance on LinkedIn, because I just like, like to and I think it's funny. So yeah, I feel like you can just share whatever you want, and if people tell you can't share something, they're not your target audience and just vibe and thrive.
Nicole Gottselig:Oh, I like that. I like that. Okay, last one on this your speaking engagements. Like, do you have, like, some core topics you talk about, or do you generally keep it open depending on the audience? Or, like, what do people love for you to talk about, actually?
Grace Ling:Yeah, so it kind of evolved over the years. These days, I talk a lot about community building, hosting events, creating content, personal branding, networking. In the past, I've talked a lot about, like, design thinking, design workshops, career growth, journey to my career, just like honestly, like anything I do that people are interested in. That happens lately to be like community building, events, content creation, personal branding, topics like that. And lately also integrating AI in your workflow, because that's a hot topic right now.
Nicole Gottselig:Speaking of AI, do you use chat GPT? Much I use it? Yeah, okay, because your content always sounds so unique to me.
Grace Ling:Oh, I never copy and paste from chatgpt. I would only use AI if I want to, like, brainstorm some ideas.
Nicole Gottselig:Yeah, what else do you use AI for? Just more curious, actually,
Grace Ling:that's pretty much it. I feel like there's so many tools out there, and honestly, I just want to use one because it's too much to keep track of. Sometimes I use Grammarly for grammar, but like, if I want some ideas, I feel in like designers blog, I'll ask chatgpt, hey, give me some top trends from this year, like, generally, some like ideas for content creators or, yeah, but I never copy and paste because I don't believe in that. Feel like content creation is like creative expression for yourself. It should, it should come directly from you, because I don't want the internet to become AI talking to AI.
Nicole Gottselig:Yeah, as a writer and as a creator myself, I feel the same thing. It's like I don't want AI to be talking to AI. So Grace. This has been really inspiring, and I think what I feel most inspired to do is to make changes in my life right away. And I know everyone listening will step away with at least one, if not 10, tools and tips to actually take into action right now. You make it sound so easy, and I know it hasn't been like a walk in the park for you either. Oftentimes, as you know we say, the people who. Pay you the most, value the most, right? So you make it look easy, but it's, it's it's worth what? What people pay you for grace, because you make it seem so easy, and you make it so that anybody can actually start making changes in their lives right away. So we're really lucky in this world to have someone like you in it, to be a voice for those who maybe feel less empowered to actually show up being who they really are. So you've been inspiring me since I started following you online, and it's just such a joy to watch you thrive because you take all that joy, all that compassion, all that love for humanity and you help others see the light within themselves and be the best versions of themselves. So I just really want to thank you for being on today and being part of this, this show.
Grace Ling:Thanks for having me on. This was fun.
Nicole Gottselig:Thank you for tuning in to connect with purpose. I hope today's episode brought you inspiration and insight into what it means to live a purpose driven life. If you enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe and leave us a review. Your feedback helps us grow and reach more listeners who are on their own journey to finding and living their purpose. And remember, living with purpose isn't some far off destination, it's a journey that we're all on together. So if you aren't living your purpose fully right now, don't worry if you're still alive, your mission on earth is not complete. So keep going, and until next time. I'm Nicole gottslag, and this is connect with purpose.
Sian Sue:Thanks for joining us on Connect With Purpose, produced by Titan ONE. Connect With Purpose is hosted by Nicole Gottselig. Executive Producer, Mark Glucki. Producer, Sian Sue. Hey, that's me! Special thanks to Mark Edwards, editing, Monica Lowe and Dave Chau, design, and Charlie the office dog. Do you have an inspiring story? Or maybe you know someone who's followed their passion to find a new purpose? Reach out on our site. We'd love to hear from you.
